Ask the Expert with Dr. Laura Marinelli - How to Care for your Skin Microbiome

Did you know that your skin has its own microbiome? Let's talk about how to support it for glowing healthy skin at any age.

Dr. Laura joins us to help us understand how to care for our skin microbiome as we age.

Dr. Laura Marinelli is a skincare-obsessed scientist who has spent her entire academic career researching phages and the microbes that live on our skin and make up our skin microbiome.

She earned her Ph.D. at the University of Pittsburgh, completed her postdoctoral training at UCLA, and is now living her longtime dream of creating phage-based skincare products to improve skin health with Ellis Day Skin Science.

 

Elaine: Welcome to this month's Ask the Expert series. I'm really excited that today we have Dr. Laura Marinelli. She is a skincare obsessed scientist, who has spent her entire academic career researching phages. They are the microbes that live on our skin and make up our skin microbiome.

She earned her PhD at the University of Pittsburgh. She completed her postdoctoral training at UCLA where I'm based, in LA, and is now living her longtime dream of creating phage-based skincare products to improve skin health, with Ellis Day Skin Science.  Ellis Day and I are both featured at the Conscious Beauty Collective in San Francisco, our first pop up store experience. So welcome. Thank you for being our expert this month.

Dr. Laura: Of course. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. It's so great to talk to you again.

Understanding the skin microbiome:

Elaine: Yeah, so we'll dive in. Give us a brief explanation of the skin microbiome. What is it?

Dr. Laura: Right. So when we talk about the skin microbiome, basically, that refers to the population of microbes that live on and within our skin. And so our skin really has this rich microbial ecosystem on it and in it, and this is a diverse array of microbes. They're not just bacteria. There's viruses, they're spongy, and they all, sort of, work together and generally work to keep your skin healthy. And so they have a protective function, they protect your skin from invasion by other pathogenic bacteria and other viruses, sponges. They form that, kind of, layer that helps to keep your skin safe.

They also do a really cool job, especially during infancy and childhood, they...what's called instruct your immune system. And so as you're getting colonized with these skin, bacteria, they're teaching your system about what is healthy, and what is safe, and what's not safe. And so we learn to tolerate the safe bacteria. And then we learn that if we don't recognize other bacteria, that those guys are bad, and we shouldn't instruct the immune response. So it's called immune system instruction, and it's really important later in life, so we could mount an effective and targeted immune response.

Elaine: Wow. So we hear a lot, like, with the gut microbiome. There's good bacteria and there's bad bacteria. So the same thing on our skin, is
which you're saying?

Dr. Laura: Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. There's a lot of good bacteria. There's a lot of good microbes in general, but there's a lot of bad ones, too. So that's why, you know, you don't want to kill bacteria and microbes indiscriminately because they really are...I mean, we wouldn't be alive without our...you know, especially our gut microbiome, but our skin microbiome too. We wouldn't wanna see what our skin would look like without them there. They're really important.

Elaine: Right. So they're very protective.

Dr. Laura: Absolutely.

Elaine: So we're gonna get into this a little bit later, too. But are there ways we can support it? And I'm thinking, you know, in the last two years, during the pandemic, we've been so terrified of germs, and I almost feel like we've been over cleansing and over trying to kill things. So tell us what you think when it comes to skin. Can we overdo it?

Dr. Laura: Yeah, definitely. I mean, we learned with COVID that it's really airborne transmission.  You know, the hand sanitizer is not gonna help as much as is, you know, the masks. With our skin, it's true. I mean, you can overdo it. Absolutely. And the number one thing in terms of what I recommend to keep your skin microbiome safe is to really avoid products that have a lot of what are called broad spectrum antimicrobials. So I'm not saying if it's prescribed by a doctor, but just things you get over the counter that have like a lot of benzoyl peroxide, sulfur, which isn't as bad, but if it's used all over and used too much, it could be really bad, because these things kill indiscriminately. And so you might use them because you think you have some problem bacteria, and maybe you do, but then they end up killing good bacteria too.

So that's a really key way, if you can avoid using those, especially using them all over your face. You know, that's...generally I wouldn't recommend because you could really long term create damage to your skin microbiome.

I mean, that being said, our microbiomes are pretty resilient. So if you treat them well, they'll do well. But if you're assaulting them with these things that are killing them, that's not good. And it's gonna leave you vulnerable to other, you know, invasion by other types of pathogens that you don't want.

And I also say, things that are really harsh, like scrubs, you know, some scrubs are fine, but if you're using a harsh scrub all the time, if you're using those cleansers that are really super sudsy and leave your skin feeling, kind of... that squeaky clean feeling, those things are bad, not that they hurt the bacteria or the microbiome, but they disrupt your skin barrier. And so it's like you're disrupting the microbiome's home, that you need to establish their niches. And so if you're disrupting their homes and their niche, that's gonna secondarily also affect the skin microbiome and, you know, create redness, irritation, inflammation.

And so, scrubs aren't bad per se, of course, the very harsh ones are, but just moderation, moderation, definitely. And the cleansers is key, you know. You don't want something that's stripping your skin. You want a very gentle cleanser.

Elaine: Right. So this leads us into another question, is, procedures. Again, I live in the land of plastic surgery and people doing all kinds of things, chemical peels, microneedling, lasers, retinol. How do all these things affect our skin microbiome?

Dr. Laura: That's a really great question. It's interesting, because to prep for this, our discussion tonight, I was doing some research and seeing what else was new. There's not a lot known. I mean, there's studies on how it affects skin appearance, but not the microbiome per se. And so, you know, in some senses, we have to infer.

I mean, we know things like, you know, laser resurfacing, peels, they work by removing the top few layers of our skin in a controlled way. So it's removing that dead, discolored, dull damaged skin cells to create, like, a newer, healthier, bouncier appearance skin. And so, you know, you are removing the top layer, so you're certainly...I would postulate that you're going to disrupt the surface microbiome to some degree which is pretty resilient.

So if it's something you're doing once or twice a year, probably not the worst thing in the world. And the bacteria within deeper in the pores or in the deeper layers of your skin are probably safe from those types of treatments. So, you know, again, it's a moderation thing, you know, but I would love to see more studies done because long term, we really don't know.

You know. You brought up retinoids too, which are a super popular anti-aging ingredient which work by increasing cell turnover. So, they have great anti-aging functions to create, you know, newer, healthier looking skin. They have done some studies. They don't affect the microbiome directly. So they're not like antimicrobial or anything. But interestingly, you probably know, but not a lot of people know they're vitamin A derivatives. So they're related to vitamin A, which is a really important compound for our immune system.

So retinoids may be mildly anti inflammatory, mildly. And they could also stimulate our body to make natural antimicrobials which are preferred over the artificial ones because they're more targeted against the bad guys, assuming your immune system has been instructed to target the bad guys. So, you know, there's some interesting preliminary stuff.

I will say, though, was retinoids, there's the danger they could be irritating too. Retinoids could certainly be. So if you have sensitive skin, super dry skin, or rosacea prone skin, there may be something you want to avoid, just because you're gonna end up with too much disruption to the skin barrier due to the irritation, so any of all the beneficial effects are kind of, lost. So  pay attention to your skin and see how you respond to something like that.

Elaine: Right. So tell us... In the introduction I talked about that you work for Ellis Day. So I have one of the bottles here. My 15 year old niece has been struggling with really bad acne, so I sent her some of the products for acne. But explain to us, what are the phages that are in here, and how do they support the skin and the microbiome?

Dr. Laura: Right. Yeah. So I've been with Ellis Day pretty much since the beginning, since the company started. As a means of an introduction, we're a small female-led company. And, you know, we're based in San Francisco. I'm actually on the East Coast, so I'm, sad, but most of the company is in San Francisco. And yeah, we have a line of great products, many of which contain our hero ingredient, which are known as phages. And so for those who aren't familiar, phages are microbes. So phages themselves are these teeny, teeny...I mean, they're microscopic, sub microscopic, actually. You can't even see them with a microscope, and they're everywhere. Phages are found in every environment on earth. Anywhere you look you're gonna find a phage. But what's special about our products, and so I actually have,.. I have some here too.

But what's special about the phages in our products, is that these are very specific phages that are found on skin, and they're found on healthy skin. And so what phages are, is they're actually...I like to call them bacteria's worst enemy, because they kill bacteria, and they do it in a very specific and targeted way. So the phages in our serums, and so this is our Balancing Phage Serum, specifically target and kill blemish causing, inflammation causing bacteria on skin. So they're great for those suffering with teenage acne, hormonal acne. They're very gentle, and so important, they don't disrupt the skin microbiome, because they're naturally found there and they only target the bad bacteria. So they leave all the other microbes completely unharmed, which is a really key difference between our product and any of the other anti-microbial products on the market.

Elaine: Right, which are very stripping. And then does that, kind of, set you up into a cycle with acne? It's like it strips it, and it just makes it worse. Right?

Dr. Laura: Between the stripping and the drying, and then the killing the good bacteria, yes, exactly. You're creating this vicious cycle of, you might see some temporary improvement, but then the condition of your skin is worse over time, because you're disrupting the barrier, and you're harming the beneficial microbes that are there to protect you. So, yeah, like I said, that's why Ellis Day is so different, and, you know, works and works over the long term to not only, you know, help clear up blemishes, but to help with the long term health of your skin, which is really important.

Elaine: Right. And so, how about skin...we've talked about teenage acne, but what about skin for those of us 40s and 50s, where, you know, hormones are causing changes to the texture of your skin, the feel of your skin? How can those phages help us?

Dr. Laura: Right. So, myself, I'm suffering from hormonal chaos. And, you know, hormonal fluctuations, both throughout, you know, for many women, throughout adulthood, into your 40s will cause periodic breakouts, and it's a lot of the same mechanism, similar mechanism that causes breakouts in your teens, it's just more...sometimes where you get it is different, you know, some of the features are different, but the root cause, the bacteria that cause it, those harmful bacteria are the same. And so the phages in our serum target those harmful bacteria, which help prevent those hormonal breakouts that you see in your 20s, 30s, 40s and help to keep calm your skin and balance the skin microbiome.

And really, you know, as you're aging, as skin ages too inflammation becomes really detrimental, because the inflammatory processes that occur in skin due to things like breakouts or, you know, irritation could basically stimulate, enhance the aging process in a way you don't want. So you've heard the term inflammaging versus inflammation stimulated aging and all those inflammatory factors, sort of, just accelerate, accelerate is the word I'm looking for, accelerate the aging process. And so, by targeting bacteria that cause that inflammation, you could really prevent that inflammation from accelerated aging and keep your skin calm, reduce redness.

So, you know, we have our...for viewers today, I know...if anybody is interested in trying our Balancing Phage Serum, we actually have a code for 20% off for our, you know, our flagship balancing serum. And I have to check my notes. With Elaine 20 is the code. So anybody watching, if you want to try our awesome serum, it's great and, like I said, it really does keep those bad bacteria in check and helps to prevent that inflammation. Our other products too. We have a cleanser which is great for both, you know, breakout prone oily skin, but it also is really great for aging skin because it's non stripping, it's non drying. It's very gentle. And then we have a replenishing moisturizer as well that's deeply hydrating, but it's light. It has a light texture and it's non greasy so it's not going to make oily skin oilier but it really has a lot of skin-native hydrating ingredients like squalene, glycerin, niacinamide. It's hydrating and calming, great for all those suffering...the turmoils of up and down you get with aging skin.

Elaine: Right, right. Okay, I'm glad you addressed cleanser, because that was a question that I had. So branching off a little bit, what is the connection between gut microbiome and your skin? You know, I think a lot of people don't realize what you eat and sleep and all these different things, I think, play out in your skin. I think your skin tells the story of your overall health, right?

Dr. Laura: It does. It is one of the first indicators that something might be amiss internally, and particularly you mentioned the gut, particularly with the gut. There's this paradigm, it's emerging over the last couple years, it's called the gut skin axis. And it's basically that these two organs which don't seem very similar, connected at all, are actually really intimately connected, and communicating between the two. And so they're linked in. And part of that link relates to the fact that both of them are the organs that encounter the outside world. So you think the skin is in contact with the air, with, you know, the pollution in the air, sunlight, everything that we come in contact with externally, and our gut, everything we take into our body has to go through our gut.

And so both organs have that important job of that immune system instruction of having to learn what's safe and what's not, what we should, you know, call in the troops and mount a response to and what we should say, "Wait, no, this is fine, this is safe. We don't want inflammation in response to something good."

And yes, organs have this related function. And really, what we're seeing is that a lot of disorders of, like, the skin microbiome, and when you look at things like psoriasis, when you see...that are associated with the disrupted skin microbiome, when you look in those same individuals, many of them also have problems with their gut microbiome or disrupted in microbiome. And so it's this really fascinating thing. And I will say, science is a constantly evolving field, I don't know exactly how it all works, but one key thing that's been shown is that...so the bacteria in our gut, if we think about the bacteria in your skin, there's trillions of them, and there's like seven times as many of those in our gut. So the bacteria in our gut, there's just billions and billions and billions, and they're constantly making metabolites and byproducts.

And those things, you know, could get into our circulation. And if they're disrupted, they're gonna make signals like danger signals, inflammatory signals, that are dispersed throughout the body and get to the skin. And then that, sort of, inflammation is evident on our skin. And it also affects the skin microbiome, like I said, so I think it'll be really interesting to see as scientists learn more about how exactly they do communicate with one another, because there's a very clear link between the two.

Elaine: Definitely, yeah, I had guttate psoriasis 13 years ago, and it is no joke. But once once I cleared out my gut health, that resolved the psoriasis.

Dr. Laura: That's great. You know, it's a very clear illustration of how the two are so tightly connected. And it's why it is so important, you know, to have a healthy diet. You know, we talk about the things we put on our skin, but it is really important...you know, I'm guilty of not always eating and drinking the best things, but, you know, I definitely try, especially as I'm getting older, because you can see the effects of taking care of your gut microbiome on your skin and vice versa too. Which is why also I love your products so much too, because it's really... I'm in the skincare world but I love, kind of, the two pronged approach to healthy skin, where you're ingesting the collagen that's really beneficial in helping to, from the inside out, improve your skin health and give, you know, that full nice, plump appearance and help to promote collagen renewal, because as you know, yeah, as you've talked about a lot, collagen decreases as we age, and so it's really important to supplement it.

Elaine: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I think beauty is an inside job. I talk...

Dr. Laura: I love that.

Dr. Laura:... a lot about that. You know, it starts inside. It's followed up by how you take care of your skin. It really is the two pronged approach. So yeah, I really believe, you know, Ellis Day products are very important part of having healthy skin and not stripping your skin.

Dr. Laura: Yeah, I mean, what was really our goal is to, you know, create products that are safe, gentle, but very effective and are gonna do what they say. You know, you don't need a million ingredients, you need a few, effective, safe ingredients that are gonna do what they say. And that's why phages are so...like, phages are great. And the supporting ingredients in our cleanser, and then our moisturizer, we call them our phage friendly products because they work well, because they don't kill the pages. They support them, they support, and then they support your skin barrier too. We're really proud of what we've created and hope people could try it.

Like I said, so, for any of the viewers, with Elaine 20 we'll get you 20% off our balancing serum. If you're new to Ellis Day, this is what I recommend trying because this is what started it all, and this is going to give you, you know, a ton of bang for your buck. It has our proprietary phages that are going to...skin native that are going to go in and kill the bad bacteria. If you're dealing with blemishes and breakouts, this is great, hormonal breakouts, even just red irritated, sensitive skin, this is a great product. And so, you know, if you're new to Ellis Day, give this a try. You know, many, many of our customers have been so thrilled with the results.

Elaine: Yeah, no, it's a wonderful product, it's not irritating at all. So I recommend. I have a question, is the microbiome of your skin on your face, is that different from, like, the rest of your body, or is all your skin the same?

Dr. Laura: That's a really good question. And in fact, it's different. And it's different depending on different parts of your skin. So the microbiome on, like, the oily parts of our skin is very different than the microbiome on the dryer, like on your arm, is different than your forehead, is different than your back, is different than your foot, is different than your underarms, which is considered a wet area. It's like wet, oily, and dry. Yeah, and so even the different areas of the skin are very different. And then if you're comparing the skin and the gut, it's, like, completely different, totally different. Sometimes, of course, there's, depending, the same general families of bacteria, but, you know, the species, the specific species are pretty unique, and the composition of those species are very unique to the different parts of your body.

And even amongst individuals, you know, my skin would be different than your skin in terms of microbial composition, the levels of the different microbes. And I mean, it's a fascinating field, and like I said, we're still learning a lot.

Elaine: Wow, wow. So a couple questions from people on my email list. And tell me if this is out of your wheelhouse. I'm, kind of, throwing things at you. So we always hear drink enough water, right? So do you have an opinion, for healthy hydrated skin, how important is drinking water, and do you have an opinion on how much water we should drink?

Dr. Laura: Right. So, you know, this is a little bit outside my expertise, but I do know a little bit about it. So, you know, I think the old, like, eight glasses a day. I don't think there's one set amount. I think the newer studies are saying that was, sort of..with anything, it's more individual needs. That being said, it is important to stay hydrated. I mean, hydration is important, not just for our skin, but just for overall wellness of our body. Listen to your body, and I'm guilty of it too. But, you know, have that water by you throughout the day and it will long term help contribute but it's not the end all be all, I guess. But if you're constantly dehydrating yourself, you're gonna see it in your skin. And so, yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I think it's rather than trying to say, "Oh, I need to eat, you know, I need to drink this specific amount." Just listen to your body. And when you feel thirsty, drink, and try to drink water. Try to remind yourself to drink water throughout the day. Because, yeah, water is great for your skin but also for your just general well being.

Elaine: Right, right. Another question that came in, which I thought was, kind of, interesting. Again, not sure if it's in your wheelhouse. So someone who exercises a lot, they're a runner, they're going on long runs, they're sweating a lot, is that taking away from the microbiome? Like, should they wash their face quickly? How should they handle sweating when exercising?

Dr. Laura: That's a good question. Because part of what's important with protecting your microbiome is not, like we said, stripping it. And generally, I wash my face twice a day, some people with drier skin only need to splash cool water in their face in the morning. They don't necessarily need a cleanser in the morning, I always did need at least some cleanser to get rid of the oils that build up overnight. But if you're exercising a lot, and you're constantly washing your face throughout the day, or washing your body a lot, I don't think that there's a danger with exercising per se. But just, I think it's more important to use gentle products that aren't stripping.

And so, yeah, you wanna get rid of that surface layer of sweat, freshen up, feel better. But you don't necessarily wanna be using an anti-bacterial soap every time you take a shower, just a nice hydrating body wash to get the sweat off your body, you know, and that's... I remember growing up we always had Dial soap.

Elaine: Oh my gosh, yeah.

Dr. Laura: And so if you're using something that's really stripping, and you're using, maybe taking two showers a day or washing your face several times a day, that's going to be really bad for your microbiome. So just, you know, maybe pay close attention to the products that you're using. 

Ellis Day has another product called our Chill Face Spray. And this spray, it has actually...it has our phages in it, but it's a spray. It's a hydrating spray, really gentle, you know, non drying. And it's really refreshing. So it's great to you, if you're at the gym, or after a run, give your face a few spritzes with this and it's gonna get rid of, you know, any of those bad bacteria without getting rid of the good bacteria.

Elaine: Oh, I love that.

Dr. Laura: It's great. And it also works really well if you wear a mask a lot. I am still masking pretty much everywhere indoors. And so you could spray it on the areas where you wear masks to prevent the maskne, which is, you know, on and off. Because you're you're trapping all those dirt and oils under the mask, and that's, kind of, feeding those bad bacteria. It can be sprayed either on the mask... I like to spray it on my skin right before I put the mask on to, sort of, create that little protective layer of phages to keep my skin, as I'm sweating under the mask or whatever, I mean, especially if you're working out the mask, but just in general it's really great.

Elaine: Oh, I love that.

Dr. Laura: Exercise is good, just, you know, be mindful of what you're using to clean your body, I guess, and your face.

Elaine: Right, right. So our last question comes in, is, does Dr. Laura have any favorite foods to help your skin, to support your skin? I know this is, again, maybe a little out of your wheelhouse, but...

Dr. Laura: No, I mean, I think, in general, fermented foods, kimchi, yogurt, sauerkraut, those are supposed to be really good because...and, I mean, I love all those foods. They also promote gut health. So anything that's really gonna promote your gut health is gonna promote your skin health, but beyond, you know, the fermented foods which are gonna have those beneficial, you know, gut bacteria, just a healthy well balanced diet, you know, enough fruits and vegetables, proper hydration.

You know, I don't go in for extreme diets or for restricting certain things. I'm very fortunate, I don't have any food restrictions. So, for me, it's really just about moderation and just, kind of, having a really, you know...a lot of different colorful fruits and vegetables and lean proteins. When I do that and when I pay more attention to my diet, that's generally when my skin is the happiest. And like I said, using your product, I think, is great, because it's really a way to incorporate those beneficial collagen into your diet too as you're eating your healthy fermented foods and balanced diet. You know, I've used it still, you know, it's amazing, because it's odorless, tasteless, you could add it to anything. I was actually looking at the recipes on your Instagram and getting hungry.

Elaine: Oh, I know. Yeah. I have a chef nutritionist, Michaela Clauss, who, every month, comes up with recipes. 

Dr. Laura: So cool. Yeah.

Elaine: ...yeah, she does a fantastic job for me. And people really, really love the recipes. So, well, anything that you see on the horizon in the scientific world that you think, you know, we should know about, anything you're learning or researching, discovering?

Dr. Laura: You know, it is such a rapidly evolving field. One of the things I thought that was interesting, I think I alluded to, was that with that gut skin access, I was just looking at a paper earlier, you know, when I was preparing for our talk, that some of those byproducts of you gut metabolism might actually feed into the aging processes in our skin. And that's, I think, the first... I haven't really seen it yet. I've seen, kind of, the guts can access in terms of skin disorders, but to see it, kind of, studied in terms of just aging itself. And it was a term on cellular senescence, where your cells, sort of...I mean, it's an aging process where they're not completely dead, but they're not turning over as fast, but they're still, sort of, metabolizing. And this could create this inflammatory environment.

And so kind of just, you know, I think that I'll be really interested to watch that space, I think, to understand how, you know, gut inflammation could sort of contribute to that process, or inflammation in general. It's probably the inflammation-aging connection, more, I think, support for that. But just to see more about that, I think, will be a really... I'm gonna be watching that space a lot, because I think that's really interesting.

Elaine: I agree. Yeah, I think we're learning that inflammation is a driver of aging.

Dr. Laura: It's funny. I remember I always had you know, combo skin, oilier as a teen and now I'm more combo, dry in areas, but, you know, I remember my grandma and mum always saying, "Well, you have oily skin and you get breakouts. The good thing is your skin will stay younger." but, you know, the moment you learn about inflammation from the breakouts and it's not necessarily... That could also be a bad thing too. So, the one benefit to breaking out.

But this is why we have our Ellis Day products now which will target those bad bacteria, knock out the inflammation, and really, kind of, prevent that from feeding into the aging process.

I don't love the idea of anti-aging because we all age and we wanna age well rather than prevent it but age the best way we can and not hurry it along.

Elaine: Right. Exactly. Yeah, I don't believe in the word "anti-aging". I always say aging is a privilege. Absolutely.

Dr. Laura: It's better than the alternative but we can do it in the best way and maintain our health to the best of our ability while we age and support our body. You know, that's the goal.

Elaine: Absolutely. Well, Laura, this has been a pleasure. I've learned so much from you. So how can people connect with you? How can they find you? Tell us where to go.

Dr. Laura: Right. So you could check out the Ellis Day website, Ellis Day Skin Science. You could email us. Our email is on the website. Our CEO, Carol Christopher, is amazing. She is just a dynamo, and she responds to, you know, all the customer emails, inquiries. I'll respond if you have a question for me.

Like I said, we're a small company. So it makes us really connected to our customers and to the people who use our products. And yeah, if you're curious, you have questions about phages or the phage science, you know, I could talk for probably more than you would like.

Elaine: Oh, no. I love learning. That's why I started my Ask The Experts series, is because I was like, I wanna ask experts questions. So very fun fact, Carol and I have same birthday which we discovered when we were in San Francisco. So, yes. Carol, thank you.

Dr. Laura: Birthday twin. That's awesome.

Elaine: It is, it is. And she says she loves my collagen. Thank you. I love your products. Like I said, I sent them to my 15 year old niece who is having a terrible time with acne. I'm trying to get her to clean up her diet, but anyway. So we got to pick our battles. So she's got Ellis Day products to help her through this.

Dr. Laura: I mean, hopefully, they'll work for her. We've had great success stories from our customers. You know, if she wants to take before and... I know teens can sometimes be, you know, shy about it, but if she wants to do before and after pics, we'd love to see them, we'd love to share them, if she's okay with that, of course, but we're always excited for our customers and people who use our products to document their journey with Ellis Day, because I think it's really been amazing to see.

Elaine: Absolutely. Well, thank you again for your time. Thank you, Carol, for lending Laura to me so that I can the questions and share her with my audience. I know I had people emailing saying they were excited to watch the replay. So, I thank you for your time, and everybody go connect with Ellis Day, look up some products, and write them or DM them if you have any questions. And if you're in San Francisco, go stop in to the Stonestown Galleria. We're in the pop up store together. There's some phenomenal products there as well.

Dr. Laura: I know. I wish I could be there. That's the hardest part about being remote, is that I really would have loved to check out the collective. But yes, any questions, yeah, like I said, the website but of course, on Instagram, on Facebook, just send us a DM, message us, we'd love to chat and answer any questions you would have about our products.

Interviewer: That's awesome.

Dr. Laura: And thank you so much for having me. This has really been great.

Elaine: Oh, I've learned so much. Thank you, Laura. Thank you, Carol, and we will connect again soon.

Dr. Laura: That sounds wonderful. Thank you.

Disclaimer: Disclaimer: The conversation between Dr. Laura Marinelli and Elaine Morrison is for educational purposes only. This is not medical advice. Always seek the guidance of your doctor or other qualified health professional with any questions you may have regarding your health or a medical condition. Never disregard the advice of a medical professional, or delay in seeking it because of something you have read on this website or watched in the video.